INTERVIEWER
Tell me, would you please, about Jane Bowles.
BOWLES
That’s an all-inclusive command! What can I possibly tell you about her that isn’t implicit in her writing?
INTERVIEWER
She obviously had an extraordinary imagination. She was always coherent, but one had the feeling that she could go off the edge at any time. Almost every page of Two Serious Ladies, for example, evoked a sense of madness although it all flowed together very naturally.
BOWLES
I feel that it flows naturally, yes. But I don’t find any sense of madness. Unlikely turns of thought, lack of predictability in the characters’ behavior, but no suggestion of “madness.” I love Two Serious Ladies. The action is often like the unfolding of a dream, and the background, with its realistic details, somehow emphasizes the sensation of dreaming.
INTERVIEWER
Does this dreamlike quality reflect her personality?
BOWLES
I don’t think anyone ever thought of Jane as a “dreamy” person; she was far too lively and articulate for that. She did have a way of making herself absent suddenly, when one could see that she was a thousand miles away. If you addressed her sharply, she returned with a start. And if you asked her about it, she would simply say: “I don’t know. I was somewhere else.”
INTERVIEWER
Can you read her books and see Jane Bowles in them?
BOWLES
Not at all; not the Jane Bowles that I knew. Her work contained no reports on her outside life. Two Serious Ladies was wholly nonautobiographical. The same goes for her stories.
INTERVIEWER
She wasn’t by any means a prolific writer, was she?
BOWLES
No, very unprolific. She wrote very slowly. It cost her blood to write. Everything had to be transmuted into fiction before she could accept it. Sometimes it took her a week to write a page. This exaggerated slowness seemed to me a terrible waste of time, but any mention of it to her was likely to make her stop writing entirely for several days or even weeks. She would say: “All right. It’s easy for you, but it’s hell for me, and you know it. I’m not you. I know you wish I were, but I’m not. So stop it.”
INTERVIEWER
The relationships between her women characters are fascinating. They read like psychological portraits, reminiscent of Djuna Barnes.
BOWLES
In fact, though, she refused to read Djuna Barnes. She never read Nightwood. She felt great hostility toward American women writers. Usually she refused even to look at their books.
INTERVIEWER
Why was that?
BOWLES
When Two Serious Ladies was first reviewed in 1943, Jane was depressed by the lack of understanding shown in the unfavorable reviews. She paid no attention to the enthusiastic notices. But from then on, she became very much aware of the existence of other women writers whom she’d met and who were receiving laudatory reviews for works which she thought didn’t deserve such high praise: Jean Stafford, Mary McCarthy, Carson McCullers, Anaïs Nin. There were others I can’t remember now. She didn’t want to see them personally or see their books.
INTERVIEWER
In the introduction that Truman Capote wrote for the collected works, he emphasized how young she’d been when she wrote Two Serious Ladies.
BOWLES
That’s true. She began it when she was twenty-one. We were married the day before her twenty-first birthday.
INTERVIEWER
Was there something symbolic about the date?
BOWLES
No, nothing “symbolic.” Her mother wanted to remarry and she had got it into her head that Jane should marry first, so we chose the day before Jane’s birthday.
INTERVIEWER
Did your careers ever conflict, yours and your wife’s?
BOWLES
No, there was no conflict of any kind. We never thought of ourselves as having careers. The only career I ever had was as a composer, and I destroyed that when I left the States. It’s hard to build up a career again. Work is something else, but a career is a living thing and when you break it, that’s it.
INTERVIEWER
Did you and Jane Bowles ever collaborate?
BOWLES
On a few songs. Words and music. Any other sort of collaboration would have been unthinkable. Collaborative works of fiction are rare, and they’re generally parlor tricks, like Karezza of George Sand and who was it: Alfred de Musset?
INTERVIEWER
How did she feel about herself as an artist—about her work?
BOWLES
She liked it. She enjoyed it. She used to read it and laugh shamefacedly. But she’d never change a word in order to make it more easily understood. She was very, very stubborn about phrasing things the way she wanted them phrased. Sometimes understanding would really be difficult and I’d suggest a change to make it simpler. She’d say, “No. It can’t be done that way.” She wouldn’t budge an inch from saying something the way she felt the character would say it.
INTERVIEWER
What was her objective in writing?
BOWLES
Well, she was always trying to get at people’s hidden motivations. She was interested in people, not in the writing. I don’t think she was at all conscious of trying to create any particular style. She was only interested in the things she was writing about: the complicated juxtapositions of motivations in neurotic people’s heads. That was what fascinated her.
INTERVIEWER
Was she “neurotic”?
BOWLES
Oh, probably. If one’s interested in neuroses, generally one has some sympathetic vibration.
INTERVIEWER
Was she self-destructive?
BOWLES
I don’t think she meant to be, no. I think she overestimated her physical strength. She was always saying, “I’m as strong as an ox,” or “I’m made of iron.” That sort of thing.
INTERVIEWER
Considering how independently the two of you lived your lives, your marriage couldn’t really be described as being “conventional.” Was this lack of “conventionalism” the result of planning, or did it just work out that way?
BOWLES
We never thought in those terms. We played everything by ear. Each one did what he pleased—went out, came back—although I must say that I tried to get her in early. She liked going out much more than I did, and I never stopped her. She had a perfect right to go to any party she wanted. Sometimes we had recriminations when she drank too much, but the idea of sitting down and discussing what constitutes a conventional or an unconventional marriage would have been unthinkable.
INTERVIEWER
She has been quoted as saying, “From the first day, Morocco seemed more dreamlike than real. I felt cut off from what I knew. In the twenty years I’ve lived here, I’ve written two short stories and nothing else. It’s good for Paul, but not for me.” All things considered, do you think that’s an accurate representation of her feelings?
BOWLES
But you speak of feelings as though they were monolithic, as though they never shifted and altered through the years. I know Jane expressed the idea frequently toward the end of her life, when she was bedridden and regretted not being within reach of her friends. Most of them lived in New York, of course. But for the first decade she loved Morocco as much as I did.
INTERVIEWER
Did you live with her here in this apartment?
BOWLES
No. Her initial stroke was in 1957, while I was in Kenya. When I got back to Morocco about two months later, I heard about it in Casablanca. I came here and found her quite well. We took two apartments in this building. From then on, she was very ill, and we spent our time rushing from one hospital to another, in London and New York. During the early sixties she was somewhat better, but then she began to suffer from nervous depression. She spent most of the last seven years of her life in hospitals. But she was an invalid for sixteen years.
INTERVIEWER
That’s a long time to be an invalid.
BOWLES
Yes. It was terrible.
Debra Winger as Kit Moresby (as Jane Bowles), in Louis Malle’s The Sheltering Sky, was one of the weirdest feats of bad casting I’ve ever seen. So much unspoken in that PR interview!
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The movie of The Naked Lunch is pretty weird too in this regard.
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I watched it again in I want to say November of last year, and, yeah—so weird. It’s like a synthesis of the Bowles’ marriage and the Burroughs’s.
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Jane’s stories and Two Serious Ladies have still to achieve the stature they deserve. Incidentally, some other interesting characters living in N.Africa were James and Marguerite McBey. He was WW1 war artist, in the middle East, and the best etcher of his generation. Self-taught. Fantastic war etchings, and then later views of Manhattan.
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